When You’re Consistently Grateful, You Can Change Your Life.

24. When You’re Consistently Grateful, You Can Change Your Life.

“All of us have it in us to be an expert at something.”

—Scott Simon

North Pointe Realty

Podcast Transcription

Hello, I’m Michael Kurland, CEO and Co-Founder of Branded Group. Welcome to the #BeBetter Podcast. To me, our company’s mantra to “Be Better” is more than a tagline; it’s a culture that permeates our organization, propelling our team to Be Better to each other, our customers and our communities as well as to ourselves. Each week on the #BeBetter podcast, I interview leaders who authentically exemplify how they are being better in their professional and personal lives.

Thank you to JetBlue whose Mint program will upcycle and donate amenity kits, blankets, and its gently and unused retiring products to shelters, soup kitchens and other service organizations. By donating instead of disposing, the airline is also diverting waste from landfills.  Learn more about Jet Blue’s Mint program at jetblue.com.

Michael Kurland (00:02):

Hello there and welcome to another episode of the BeBetter podcast. I’m your host, Michael Kurland. Joining us today is a great guest. Scott Simon, president of North Pointe Realty in Cleveland, Ohio, and also the founder of Scare Your Soul. Scott, welcome to the show. Please tell the audience a little bit more about yourself.

Scott Simon (00:24):

Hi, Michael. Great to be with you today. I am president of a real estate development company in Cleveland, Ohio that was started about 50 years ago. We do all types of real estate development as well as management and leasing and construction. The other side of my life is rooted in something called positive psychology, which is the science of happiness. I ended up meeting a wonderful professor about eight years ago who taught the largest class at Harvard, 1400 students in something called the science of happiness. It unlocked an entire world for me, of ways for people to get happier in their own lives. Based on science, based on research and data, which those of us who have a real estate part of our brain are very focused on, you know, why am I doing this? Why is this intervention work?

Scott Simon (01:19):

But really these incredible people study people that are happy with their lives. What do they do differently? That intrigued me. So I have started an organization called Scare Your Soul, which is really focused on mainly courage, encouraging people in their lives to attack life with courage. We can certainly talk about that, but a key aspect of what we do is rooted in gratitude, which I know is your focus for this year. I am a firm believer that when you both look at the research around what makes people happy and I know in your life and in my life gratitude to me is the center. It’s the foundation of it all. When my gratitude practice is supporting me and it’s humming, I feel better about all aspects of life and when we just have that feeling of not taking things for granted and you know what, I’m an incredibly lucky person. I have all this stuff going on around me that can either be irritating and challenging, or I can look at it with an eye of wow. I feel incredibly lucky to have these parts of my life. I like the latter. I like viewing life that way if I have a choice. So I live my life that way and love speaking to groups and love what we do in Scare Your Soul to encourage that kind of life.

Michael Kurland (02:35):

I love everything you’re saying. Thank you for being here.  One thing you just mentioned that I want to touch on is gratitude is a very big part of my life. I try and make it a big part of my team’s life at Branded Group. I can tell you I don’t necessarily have the consistency with my gratitude practice in recent months, as I’d like to. Specifically my father passed away and I’ve been a gratitude journaling kind of guy and it’s been difficult. I’ve actually kind of hit a roadblock with that. To your point that you just mentioned when we are practicing gratitude on a daily basis or weekly or whatever, our consistency is you can just look at things from a different lens, right? Instead of those annoying, irritating things, you can actually take the gratitude in and what they actually are and how your life is better. You really, at least for me right there, touched on a lot of good things. So thank you. Thank you for all you said.

Scott Simon (03:39):

Sure. I’m sorry for your loss. I think you agree with me that the biggest challenges in our lives can sometimes be the windows and doors to opening up new ways to lead life and to appreciate life. We don’t wish for those things to happen ever, but when they do, to be able to for example, losing a loved one, to be able to appreciate and feel grateful for what that person brought into our lives is just one aspect of gratitude and digging into gratitude for a second. Because I know this is your focus and it’s a particular passion of mine. I think that if journaling isn’t working for you for whatever reason, there are so many other avenues into a gratitude practice. They can be thank you notes. They can be thank you emails. Obviously a gratitude journal is a big one and prayer, meditation. These are all avenues into a meditation. I’d love to share with you what mine is, if that’s of interest to you. Because mine is super easy, but I think it’s super powerful.

Michael Kurland (04:48):

That’s actually a perfect segue. Because that’s the first question. How do you personally practice gratitude on a daily basis? So you, you got it. Let’s go.

Scott Simon (04:57):

I received a very strange message on Facebook one day. It was from a woman named Carly that I didn’t know. She said that you seem like a happy kind of a guy and I’ve seen your Facebook profile. I’d like to come over to your house this Saturday night at 10:00 PM and talk with you. I looked at the message and I thought to myself, Oh boy what’s this all about? I asked a few friends who knew her and said she was great. So I invited her over. She came over and she told me that evening that she was in the process of getting divorced. She hadn’t yet told people outside of her close family. We talked about ways for her to get happier in her own life. I think she was at my house until three or four o’clock in the morning.

Scott Simon (05:45):

It was an unbelievable conversation about life and love and happiness. On the way out, she was at my front door and she said to me, you know what, I just need a little bit of a boost this week because there’s going to be a lot. Would you send me five things that you’re grateful for by text for a few days, maybe like a week? I said, sure, why don’t we do it for each other? I’ll send you five. You send me five by texts at bedtime. Great. She did it that week and I did it that week and we did it another week and we loved it so much. We did it in another week. We have now done it for four years. Every single night for four years, we send each other a text with five things that we are grateful for that day.

Scott Simon (06:29):

We have an internal rule that we try not to repeat. So that means five new things every day for four years. That has become almost like brushing my teeth. When I go to bed, I send my five gratitudes to my friend, Carly and she does the same to me and it has truly transformed the way that I view life. So for me, a gratitude text with an accountability partner, that’s what I need. I’m not as much of a journaling guy, but for me, the texting works perfectly and it works for her. It has kept me steeped in gratitude for four years.

Michael Kurland (07:01):

I think that’s great. We had our pre-show meeting yesterday and I was inspired by what you just said. I now am going to start doing that with my fiancé. We started last night. We are going to start small though. We’re going to do one thing and we’re allowing repeats. Four years of five things with no repeats is impressive. The consistency is also very impressive.

Scott Simon (07:30):

This goes to another level and I’m sure many of your listeners know this. There are those of us who are really motivated by having an accountability partner.  I like having as I mentioned before, if I do miss a night and I’ve missed a few nights in four years she inevitably sends me a text the next morning that asks me if my texting thumbs are broken because that’s the only excuse I should have for not sending her a text. So, it’s like anything else in life when we’re accountable to somebody else. Sometimes we operate at our best. For me, it works. But I think that the good news is gratitude is free, to give and receive is free.

Scott Simon (08:16):

The more we give it, the more we want to receive it from others. It’s the positive psychology, positive psychologists call an upward spiral. We all know how it feels to be in a downward spiral where things are just collecting in our lives and it’s taking us down. One thing irritates another and we’re headed in the wrong direction. Gratitude works in exactly the opposite direction. The more we do it, the more we want to do it for others and that just keeps moving in the right direction. So incredibly powerful, free. It’s just something I think everybody should do and it doesn’t take a lot to start.

Michael Kurland (08:53):

No, it doesn’t. It reminds me of something I say on a quite a regular basis is victim or victor. You can be a victim of your situation when it’s negative or something isn’t going your way and all that stuff you said, the downward spiral, are we going to be a victor and make it an upward spiral? So touching on something you said before. Thank you for acknowledging the loss of my father, but also, there’s things in life that open doors for us, like you said. That pain that we don’t want to go through, but we still do it and we can choose to use it as an open door. That’s really how Branded Group came to be. I mean, I ended up getting divorced about eight years ago and it led me to selling my home in New York and driving across country and starting Branded Group. So I could’ve folded like a lawn chair and gotten another job and just plugged away and been an angry person for the rest of my life. But I have gratitude for all these things that have happened to me, good or bad. So I just think it was important to go back and mention all of that and touch on that.

Scott Simon (09:58):

I firmly believe that and when you write five gratitudes a night for four years, you realize that sometimes the gratitudes that you write are not happy ones. That’s really almost like, I feel like I made it to Jedi level when some of my gratitude’s were for things that were not going great, because you know what there is, whether you talk about COVID and this crazy world we’re living in right now, or business reversals, or those situations in life that we’re not planning for, to identify those as potential silver linings or opportunities, reframes it from victim to victor. That’s exactly what a great gratitude practice will do. So when you start to see those setbacks as opportunities, when you start to see those setbacks as blessings, you can do incredible things.

Michael Kurland (10:55):

I couldn’t agree more. So I think we’ve touched on this, but I do think it’s important to get your exact thoughts on why it is important to show gratitude. We’ve just said that in a bunch of roundabout ways, but why specifically, what are the numbers saying? What are the analytics saying on why it’s important to show gratitude?

Scott Simon (11:15):

So there are researchers that have studied gratitude. Two in particular a guy named Robert Emmons and another one, Marty Seligman, who are both avatars in the positive psychology world who have done all kinds of studies. There’s a classic one that Emmons did was asking two different control groups to write, to journal, basically for a number of nights in a row. One were journaling. Actually, I think it may have been three groups. One was a control group that just wrote about their day. One wrote about things that irritate them and the others wrote about things that they were grateful for, happy about that happened during those days. Then they basically followed those people. They studied them and followed them. It turns out that the ones in the control group of the ones that were writing about irritating kind of things, their lives didn’t change, didn’t shift much, actually didn’t get much worse.

Scott Simon (12:02):

There wasn’t a real downshift, but the ones that wrote about what they were grateful for were happier. They were more productive at work. They were friendlier to their coworkers and they went to the doctor less. So once you start digging into the research, you start to see all of these incredible benefits that we have for gratitude. Productivity, happiness connection with others. You can imagine when you think about the people that you connect with on a daily basis, significant others, spouses, family members, coworkers, isn’t it easier to connect with somebody who has a more positive affect and outlook on life. You feel an entree into their world that you don’t feel with somebody who’s irritated, angry, unhappy, always complaining. It makes it easier to be friends with them, makes it easier to connect with them, and that makes us better coworkers and a more supportive organization or company. So I think this has huge impact and the research is there to support it. But I think we also know anecdotally in our lives, we just like hanging out with and connecting with and working with people who are happier.

Michael Kurland (13:17):

I agree. I specifically do. I think there are some people that, you know, misery loves company, right. They may be stuck in a rut and they want to be with people that are complaining or they just want to listen to them complain. But that’s because they haven’t started their gratitude practice yet. So hoping after listening to this podcast that changes for them. But I agree. I am no Buddhist monk, but I do think the meaning of life in a very simplistic form is to be happy. God put us here to have all these rules and regulations. I think that we need them, but I don’t think it was to repent for this or to do something for anything negative we’ve done.

Michael Kurland (14:03):

It’s to be happy, to be happy within reason. Obviously if murdering people makes you happy, then obviously that’s not okay. Go out and live your life happy and it rubs off. It does when I’m in a good mood, when my fiancé is in a good mood and we’re having a great time. We’re at the top of the pinnacle, right. So just keep that happy vibe going. Let’s move on to the next question. I think this was great. Part of our talk yesterday is the word courage. So why are you passionate about courage and how does it connect with gratitude? We talked about it yesterday. It’s a synonymous thing, courage, gratitude, grace. So tell me why courage and then maybe we can get a little bit into Scare Your Soul on this as well.

Scott Simon (14:45):

If gratitude is one of the key interventions to make us a human being, I think courage is actually what unlocks so much of what we do in life to allow us to get there. I grew up probably the shyest kid in my entire school. I was bullied growing up and basically tried to make myself as invisible as possible. I had a really challenging childhood and I know a lot of people have. I think there are a couple of ways that it affects us. It still affects me to this day. Where, if I’m up speaking in front of a group, sometimes I have this emotion of, and I can’t even believe that I’m doing this. Because when I was growing up, I could barely speak in front of two or three people, much less give a Ted talk.

Scott Simon (15:38):

So the concept of courage is what can we do in our lives to push through fear? I like to view fear in two different ways. There is real fear, which is really important, right? Like we don’t want to cross a busy street or if we have children around us, we don’t want them to feel like they can put a hand on a hot stove. Fear serves a real purpose in our life that we should pay attention to. But many of us create fears in our own heads, in our own work lives and our own social lives just in our own minds that are self-generated and that keep us from being exceptional. Those are things I’m afraid about – what people are going to think of me? I’m afraid of embarrassment. I’m afraid of failure. I’m afraid if I succeed that my parents or my significant other won’t accept these new realities.

Scott Simon (16:38):

If I quit my job, I’m afraid that I’m going to be homeless and be a failure for the rest of my life. These stories that we tell ourselves can stop us from feeling grateful, can stop us from connecting with other people. I started an organization, because I grew up in fear, to encourage people to do little small acts of courage on a consistent basis. We put out a challenge each and every week. I will tell you that some of the challenges that people like best actually have to do with gratitude, because when you do something that pushes your comfort zone and gratitude is the end result, it’s like a double win. It’s like a three-pointer. It’s that much better. I’ll give you an example. The research says that probably the greatest amount of happiness that would come from a gratitude action is the following: writing a gratitude letter to somebody you care about and delivering that letter to that person and reading it to them.

Scott Simon (17:40):

So we’re in COVID now. So this might mean actually getting on a Zoom or a FaceTime with them, but if you can imagine what it would feel like to write a letter where you really tell somebody how you feel about them, and then you call them up and say, you know what? I want to come over. I want to hop on a Zoom. I’ve got something to read you and then you read that letter to them. Again, it doesn’t cost a thing. This has been one of our Scare Your Soul challenges. The impact it has on people. It’s an unforgettable experience and how it feels for the giver and how it feels for the receiver are both amazing. So, does it take courage? Sure. It takes courage to take the time, to think about it, to reflect, to, to put strong emotions on a piece of paper, to encourage, to reach out to that person, even if you care about them. It takes courage to express that emotion to that person. We don’t do these things every day. Typically, if we do, you’re a gratitude superhero, but it takes courage to do it. But oh my God, the impact that it has is huge. So, we like to present all of these opportunities every single week at Scare Your Soul for free, just to make people a little bit more courageous and a little happier in their lives.

Michael Kurland (18:51):

I love it. I think you’ve touched on a lot of big things with the courage and I think what you just said about a gratitude letter to someone. Most people we talk about the 5%, the upper 5%, right? How was your day? How was the weather? It’s just, it’s comfortable, but it’s uncomfortable to tell them you’re angry. It’s easier to tell someone you don’t like them and then you never talk to them again, because you don’t like them. But trying to look your business partner, your fiancé and someone, really your sister, you’re really close to and tell them how you really deeply feel below that 5% and then have them react to. I always thought you didn’t quite like me, or I always thought you thought I was dumb or, something along those lines is very powerful what you’re saying, and I’m probably going to utilize that one and steal that and make little gratitude letter, like you said. It’s free and it’s easy. So give it a shot.

Scott Simon (19:51):

It is. Obviously we have 52 different challenges a year, but some of them are physical or relational. It’s buy a cup of coffee for a stranger is a classic one that we do every few months where again, it’s just pushing through that little comfort. I cannot tell you, I’ve probably done 10 different coffees for strangers over the past couple of years. I’ve probably had a beautiful interaction eight of those 10 times with people who legitimately were touched. Then they told me afterwards that they were going to do something that day for somebody else. So you can think about the impact of a little act of courage. It costs me $3 for a cup of coffee, but think about the impact of what that did.

Scott Simon (20:39):

If we all did that in our little ways, you really create massive shifts and massive change. That’s why I like to call Scare Your Soul a movement. We’re not there just for the individual actions. That’s important, but when we all start leading our lives with courage, and I know many of your employees and listeners, they’ve got things on their plate, and they’ve got choices and decisions about their jobs and the kind of responsibilities they have. If they can push just a little bit harder, just a little bit into that comfort area, ask for help from somebody that intimidates you a little bit, call a supervisor or a mentor and ask them to meet you for a Zoom cup of coffee for five minutes or 10 minutes. It’s uncomfortable. But think about what could arise from that. It’s those little actions that make all the difference.

Michael Kurland (21:29):

Totally agree. To your point, I was in the Starbucks drive through maybe three weeks ago, and someone in front of me bought my coffee and I was like, I don’t need anyone to buy me coffee. I was so taken aback, like, thank you, but we were in cars, so I drove out and I tried to catch up with them and just say, thank you. I couldn’t catch them though. They were gone. But you know, it made me want to go out and pay it forward a little bit too. So I think that’s great. Like you said, movement shifts. If everyone did that, even once a week, if everyone did it just once a week, this would be such a better country. I think we could all use a little bit more of that these days. It’s a little bit of healing. So let’s talk about benefit finder. You mentioned this to me yesterday. I had never heard the phrase before, but I really like what you told me, and I want to know what it is and why it’s important to becoming a happier person. That’s what the audience wants to know too.

Scott Simon (22:32):

So this is one of my favorite concepts in positive psychology. It really relates to a gratitude practice. So when you are writing in a gratitude journal or doing my famous five texts a night you spend your days instead of being buffeted by things that irritate you, which you know that we all have something in us as human beings called a negativity bias. We are hardwired to look for things that are threatening. I’ll give you a perfect example. If you talk to 10 people over the course of the day and nine of them have compliments about you, and one has some constructive criticism, what do we end up focusing on? We always end up focusing on that 10th person, right? It’s part of our nature. So we can lead our lives that way by walking through life and noticing the things that bother us or trouble us.

Scott Simon (23:29):

But if you have a gratitude practice, you actually start spending your days looking for the things that you’re going to write about that night. You start spending your days looking for things that you’re grateful for. When you do that, you become what the positive psychologists say, a benefit finder. You start looking for those beautiful little nuggets of things during the day. My mail was delivered a few minutes before our discussion today. My mailman is the nicest happiest guy. I thought about it as he was waving at me and I thought, you know what? I’m going to write about that. So that’s going to be one of my five gratitudes tonight. My mailman. Now would I have paid attention to that if I didn’t have a gratitude practice? Probably not, but you know what? I paid attention to it. It made me feel good.

Scott Simon (24:18):

I’m probably going to think about it for the rest of the day. Then tonight, it’s going to end up in one of my five texts to Carly. That’s a benefit finder. I know it sounds a little hokey. I know it sounds a little bit like Scott, come on. But when you start doing this consistently, you start looking at those things that are beautiful in life, because you’ve got to write about it that night. When you live life as a benefit finder, again, it’s all free. You don’t have to buy 16 books or watch seven webinars. You can start it literally today. It moves the needle. It just moves the needle. So it’s one of those concepts to me now, it makes so much sense when you hear about it, you’re like, you know what, that just makes sense and it really, not only does it make sense, it works. So that’s why I’m a huge proponent of some sort of a consistency. I encourage you to get back to your either journaling or continue with your texting one a night, because the consistency really helps you start leading your days, looking for things that are great.

Michael Kurland (25:24):

I think the benefit finder, your example yesterday with the snow storm and bringing you back to New York and that your great time that you were stuck in the city and that’s a great city to be stuck in, that really rang true for me. I think, look, it’s again, changing your lens, looking for, I don’t want to say looking for the bright side, but looking for the bright side of things, looking for the sunny side of things. So I don’t think it’s hokey, and I don’t think that’s how I would describe it. I think it’s just a change, a change in your thought process, which if you’re not practicing gratitude, you probably need it. So that’s where I’ll go with that. So it leads us to the next question and I think this is great for you to explain to the audience. How can people start a gratitude practice and continue it, so it becomes a habit?

Scott Simon (26:20):

So here’s where the concept of trial and error comes in. The key is starting. That’s my main message. Don’t put it off. Don’t wait for next month when you’re planning on buying your awesome gratitude journal at your favorite bookstore. It’s to start it immediately. My suggestion is to try it where you have a partner, because that’s a little extra incentive, but if for some reason it feels like it’s not working then you can try something else. The easiest thing to do is to grab a notebook too. I happen to like writing things out or texting them because it keeps me present in the moment but for many people they want to do it in the morning.

Scott Simon (27:07):

Some people want to do it in the evening. Some people have a meditation or a mindfulness practice that they want to start, which I absolutely put into the category of gratitude. So that could be Calm or Headspace or Ten Percent. There are lot of apps you can use that are either no cost or low cost that have gratitude or loving kindness meditations that you can follow. That’s another wonderful thing to do. But to me, the kind of like the IV in your arm is a gratitude journal or a gratitude practice where you’re sharing it either with yourself or with somebody else. I would do it every night for seven nights. I would focus on one to five things that you’re grateful for. If you want to repeat, that’s your choice. I know the first time I did it, I put my kids and then I’d probably would write my kids every single night that got to be a little bit duplicative.

Scott Simon (28:01):

So for me, it was kind of fun to try to not repeat. It’s a little bit of a game, keeps me focused on what I’m grateful for. But see after seven nights, how you feel about it. Anybody can do it for seven nights. My guess is after seven nights, you’re going to want to make an eighth and ninth and a 10th and you’re going to want to keep on going. If you don’t maybe try something else. I do think if for the people listening to this, find somebody in your own life who didn’t listen to this and tell them a little bit about it. Say you listened to this podcast and there’s this cool concept. Let’s try it for seven nights. Would you do it with me? Find someone who says yes and kick it off. To me, starting the action is the key and I think the benefits are you’ll see the benefits. They’re huge.

Michael Kurland (28:52):

Totally agree. Consistency. Right back to that little word. Just be consistent and do it for seven nights. I’ve been reading this book called “The Compound Effect.” Have you ever read it? It’s by Darren Hardy and it’s basically talking about consistency and If you do anything for three weeks, it’s actually now officially a habit. So I actually read that chapter in two days. So it was kind of serendipitous that we’re talking about that. I think that’s great so audience, get out there, get a gratitude journal or start a little text message back and forth with am accountability partner. So this has been great information. I think this is all awesome stuff. I have one more question for you. It’s the same question I ask all my guests. What do you consider yourself to be an expert at and what advice do you have for the audience on how to become an expert at said thing? There is no wrong answer.

Scott Simon (29:54):

Honestly I believe that I’m an expert in forgiveness. It is an acquired skill and I feel like forgiveness starts with yourself first. It took me a long time to come around to the concept of you are enough. You as you are in this moment are enough and stop giving yourself such a hard time. Once you can start forgiving yourself, you can start letting go of all of those little grudges or not so little grudges. I had a lot of them. I had a couple of big ones and through the process of journaling, meditation, one particular type of meditation called loving kindness meditation, which has a forgiveness component to it, or sending love to people that you have challenges with. I’ve gotten to the point now in my life coaching work and my work with Scare Your Soul that I just keep an open heart and I feel like everybody is trying their best and I let all of those grudges go.

Scott Simon (31:00):

So I’m going to say that I’m an expert at this point in forgiveness. I think that my advice is that everybody has the opportunity to delve into something deeply enough that they can become an expert. The key to me is finding what your heart really tells you is your passion. There are so many ways for us to be interested in life, be curious about life, and learn about life. Find something in your life that just jazzes you. Find something that when you think about it, you could do it without looking at the time and delve deeply into that topic. It could be something you could learn about something, it’s a skill or even a part of your character. I think that all of us have it in us to be an expert at something and I believe very strongly that once we can find that electric spark, that thing that just lights you up, that’s going to keep you going and keep you focused to get to your expert level.

Michael Kurland (32:08):

Wow! No one’s ever said that they’re an expert at forgiveness and that’s a big one. I appreciate that because it’s hard. It’s hard to forgive yourself and other people for things when you feel wronged, but it’s all about self-love right? When you can start forgiving yourself and another word that keeps popping up on this season of gratitude is the word grace. Give yourself a little grace and forgiveness. So thank you, Scott.  Those are powerful words. If the audience wants to get a hold of you and they want to get ahold of Scare Your Soul, how can they do that?

Scott Simon (32:43):

Sure. So I invite everybody to visit Scare Your Soul dot com. You can check out our courage challenges, see what we do. It’s a wonderful social benefit organization, volunteer run and our only goal is to give people opportunities to be better at life. So Scare Your Soul dot com. If they want to email me personally, I’m happy to respond to any email with any questions. It’s team@ScareYourSoul.com and please by all means, reach out. We’d love to get you involved in our challenges and tell you more about what we do. I also encourage people generally when they have that decision point in their life where the answer could be yes or the answer could be no, if it feels like there’s a fear behind that decision point, just say yes,

Michael Kurland (33:36):

Let’s say yes, I like it. Well, Scott, thank you so much for coming on and audience until next time.

I’d like to take a minute to thank you, our valued listeners. My intention is for this podcast to inspire you, in some way, to be better.  Change starts from within and radiates outward. Therefore, start with being better to yourself and only then will you recognize how to be better others and your community. Thank you for joining us today! If you want to learn more about Branded Group, then visit us at www.branded-group.com. From our website you can follow us on social media. Also, always feel free to reach out to me on LinkedIn. Until next time, Be Better.