How CEOs Can Create a “Wow Factor” in Their Organization with Vikram Malhotra

64. How CEOs Can Create a “Wow Factor” in Their Organization with Vikram Malhotra

“Don’t try to create a team of stars. Instead, focus on creating a star team.”

—Vikram Malhotra

McKinsey & Company

Podcast Transcription

Hello. I’m Michael Kurland, CEO, and co-founder of Branded Group, an award-winning facility, maintenance, and construction management company that services multi-site commercial properties such as retail, restaurants, health care facilities, and educational institutions. Welcome to the Be Better Podcast. Each week I interview thought leaders from a variety of industries who will share their stories and the lessons they learn as they strive to be better for their clients, partners, employees, and their community. Are you ready to be better?

Michael: Hello and welcome to another episode of the #BeBetter podcast. I am your host, Michael Kurland. Joining me today is Vik Malhotra, Senior Partner at McKinsey and author of CEO Excellence: The Six Mindsets that Distinguish the Best Leaders From the Rest. Vik, welcome to the show. Please tell the audience a little bit more about who you are and what you do.

Vikram: Well, thank you, Michael. I appreciate the opportunity to be here. Who am I and what do I do? Well, I’m an immigrant to the United States. I grew up in India, Cyprus, and the United Kingdom. Got to go to business school, went to business school at the University of Pennsylvania, the Wharton Business School, and came right out of that to McKinsey 36 years ago. I am the oldest and longest-tenured senior partner at McKinsey by some distance at this point. I’ve been doing what I’ve been doing for a long time, and I’m very passionate about what I do. McKinsey & Company, as some of you may know, is a global management consulting company. We help CEOs and C-suite leaders solve their toughest problems and work with them to help them solve their toughest problems. And I’ve done that for 36 years and loved every minute of it. Initial Focus on the World of Financial Services. I live in New York City, so it was a natural place to go. But over time I really started serving a range of industries on their big issues. And particularly in the last ten years of building a really strong interest in terms of what creates great leaders in general great leaders, in the C-suite and CEO excellent in particular CEO leadership, in particular, board leadership as well. Those are the topics that have been of real excitement and interest to me, particularly over the last ten years or so.

Michael: And I think, you know, we got a big thing to talk about here, which is your book. But we talked about a pre show. It launched about two months ago, and it’s been a bestseller at The Wall Street Journal and New York Times, L.A. Times, Publishers Weekly, and USA Today. So I want to get into that because that’s a lot of the depth of our talk today. But I want to know, like, how you got to writing this book and what made you so passionate about this? You said you’ve been with McKinsey for 36 years, but what have you done over your time that you’ve poured into this book that all the experiences that you’ve had in those 36 years?

Vikram: Well, I should say I’ve co authored this with two wonderful people, two fellow senior partners at McKinsey, Carolyn Doer and Scott Keller. And all three of us have had a real interest over time around, you know, what is it that makes for excellent CEOs. And we started with the premise that it turns out that this role, while it’s difficult, it’s very hard to do well, you know, it matters. Right. And, you know, all the research we’ve done at McKinsey would suggest that the role of the CEO matters about 50%, 45, 50% of all value created in the company is directly in some way linked to CEO decisions. CEOs are responsible for creating a ton of jobs out there. CEOs in today’s world are more trusted than politicians. I recognize that’s a low bar, but they are getting pretty high ratings in terms of the trust factor around, you know, matters of social impact and social unrest and political issues, the war in Ukraine as an example. So, you know, they’ve got a real responsibility to play the excellent CEOs. And then, of course, from a shareholder return point of view, truly excellent CEOs in sector after sector after sector every year return three X more in terms of shareholder’s returns than the other four quintiles if they’re in the top quintile. And you do that, as Jamie Dimon of JP Morgan Chase has done for 17 years in a row, and you start differentiating yourself from a shareholder return point of view. So for all of these reasons, we started getting into, you know, if these facts support the importance of great CEOs, we said, okay, well, what defines excellent CEOs? Why, what do they do and how do they do it? And that’s really what led us to writing the book.

Michael: Very nice. And you mentioned a lot of good points there. I think the one thing that I can resonate with is the creation of and also the taking away of jobs. I, as a CEO, take that very seriously. When, you know, when I hire someone, I feel when the company hires someone, I feel a great responsibility because we’re not just supporting this person, but also their family and all their endeavors and what they’re trying to do. And when we, you know, have to terminate someone from time to time, we also have to take that into consideration and does this person, you know, if they’ve done something egregious and they’ve and they have a blasé attitude, it’s one thing, right? But if they’ve poured their heart and soul into the company, then they’re just not a good fit for the role. Is there some way I can pivot this person and get them to still have that job and have that income going into supporting their family and another role that may benefit the organization as well. So I thought that was a good point that you brought up.

Vikram: Yeah, no. Well-said Michael. Well said.

Michael: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. So, you know, let’s talk about the book. You talked about all these quint quintets, quintets, quintals. I mean, talk about those quintiles. Let’s talk about the quintiles. Let’s tell the audience exactly what that is and what that means.

Vikram: Well, it simply means that the top 20% well, the top 20% of all CEOs in any industry outperform the other 80% in that sector. Time and time again by three X, that’s a big differentiation. You know, when you kind of add it up year after year. And so that’s really kind of what the facts suggest. So what we then said was, you know, let’s go out there and interview the truly excellent CEOs. So we started out basically by looking at the 3000 plus people who’d been CEOs in the last 25 years of any company of any scale of size. Call it Fortune 1000 and larger. And then we said, okay, let’s get people who’ve been in the role for at least six years. So they’ve got a real track record. And let’s target the people who’ve had top 20% performance in their industry sector, whether it’s healthcare or insurance or the banking world or tech. Let’s find the people who went top 20% in terms of performance and quickly, that group of 3000 plus CEOs came down to about 200. We reached out to 75 of those 200 and 67 of them agreed to be interviewed for this book. And the book is really about their stories. It’s a lot of storytelling around what made them these great CEOs. Excellent.

Michael: Well, I mean, it sounds like you went to the best of the best of the best and got all the knowledge and put it all into a book. So, I mean, the book is wildly successful, right? It’s been out for two months, as we said earlier. It’s on all these bestseller lists, for weeks running. So let’s talk about the book. You know what we talk about what you went into, what it was that you guys went into wanting to write this book. Let’s talk about the book. Let’s talk about the six mindsets. What are these six mindsets that you guys have distinguished as the mindsets for the excellence of CEOs?

Vikram: Yeah. So before we get to the six mindsets, what we learned as we talked to these CEOs, these 67 exceptional CEOs was the responsibilities of the CEOs boil down to six things: setting the direction of the company, and aligning the organization, mobilizing through leaders, engaging the board and getting the most out of their boards, connecting with stakeholders internal yes, but increasingly external stakeholders, and finally managing their own personal energy and effectiveness. Right now, all great CEOs do these six things, but if there were three big takeaways from these interviews, they would be the following. The first is great CEOs are fantastic at doing all six of these things well all of the time. It’s not like they do a couple of them well and the other four are okay, right? They do all six of these responsibilities well all of the time. That was number one. Number two was their amazing integrators. They set a great vision. And then they bring organizations, the organization together and amazingly integrate it all. As Satya Nadella, the CEO of Microsoft put it to us in our interview with him on this. He said, look, the role of integration is critical because you, as the CEO, know more than anyone else in your organization. It doesn’t matter how good your organization is, or how well it’s organized, you know more than anyone else in the organization, and you certainly know more than the ten or 12 people on the board that you report to. So your job around the vision, the integration becomes critical. So that is kind of takeaway number two. And takeaway number three was really what the book’s about, which is true, as you put it, these six mindsets, which is against each one of these responsibilities that I laid out earlier. These great CEOs had a very distinct mindset that allowed them to outperform others. So, for example, on the topic of the setting,the direction of the company, the mindset that they had was bold, be bold. Really what you learned from these great, great CEOs was incrementalism or even just trying to go steady as it goes in terms of the company typically does not result in outperformance. You only get outperformance when you’re bold in terms of your vision, when you’re bold, in terms of your strategies, when you’re bold in terms of programmatic M&A, when you’re bold in terms of resource allocation, and how you think about where you put your capital dollars and your expense dollars. That just gives you one mindset. I can take you to all six of them if you like, but it gives you a sense of how they relate. The responsibility in this case sets the direction of the mindset, which is to be bold.

Michael: Yeah, I think I mean, I would love for you to take us through all six of them, but a pause right here. A couple of things that you said and a couple of questions I have and anecdotes as far as being bold, I can tell you, setting the direction as the CEO Branded Group and putting the course, I agree with that. And being bold is something that I’ve done since the day we opened. I mean, it’s definitely on a smaller scale than the people you’ve been interviewing. But, you know, from day one, we started in New York and as a company and we came out and we said, you know, let’s move to California because we saw a hole in the industry of what we do is facility management. There was nobody out here doing what we did. And I sold everything I had, packed up my car, moved across the country, and started a company in California, which was very bold at the time and still is with all the employment laws, etc., But it’s worked to our advantage all these years later. But I wanted to ask you, you said something first. You said something that was very eye-opening to me. The CEO knows more than anyone in the organization at all times. And I’ve never really thought of it that way and that I’m the CEO and I’m like, You know what? That’s right. Like, I know more than anyone in the company at all times, which I guess I should have already known, but it’s just. It just kind of, like, made a lightbulb go off. You’ve been my business partner. I know more than them on a high level, then, of everything all-encompassing in the organization at all times. And I wouldn’t have thought that about myself until you just said that. So that. Thank you for that little piece of knowledge that I’m going to take away with me today.

Vikram: There you go.

Michael: But the last thing I wanted to touch on is what you said, like getting connected with the stockholders. The shareholders. Right. And getting them to buy into what the CEO is. The vision of the CEO is. I want to ask you, how has that been affected with the new work remote at all, trying to get everyone on the same page? Has there been an issue with that that you’ve seen with CEOs since you’ve written this book?

Vikram: Yeah, look, I would say that you know, everything that’s occurred through the pandemic and with the hybrid is undoubtedly influenced. The way these CEOs operate and how they operationalize their mindset. It doesn’t change their mindset, by the way. You know, another mindset we could talk about is when they seek to align the organization, the mindset there is to treat the soft stuff like the hard stuff, by which I mean they put real metrics and hard measures around things like culture and talent. And so it hasn’t changed their mindset around what they do. But, you know, when it comes to the remote environment, the onus that it’s put on creating, buying, and creating consensus, moving the organization forward has gone up. You know, there’s no doubt about it that that ability to kind of, you know, be in the same room together, connect with people, bring them along, has gone up. Right. So they recognize that and they’ve kind of gone to other means to deal with it. That said, though, there’s also some advantages. Right. So the advantage is, you know, you’ve got to bring your model, right. It’s easier to convene your board remotely than gotta have them all together all the time. Right. So you need to bring your board along. You need multiple meetings on a particular issue. They can do that more often. I’ve seen a lot of CEOs through the pandemic find ways in ways that they would never have done in the more physical environment to reach down into their organizations and connect with people. You know, one, two, three, four levels down in the organization just to kind of communicate a point to get something done. So remote has been for them both. It’s made some things more difficult from communication and a vision and a boldness point of view. But it’s also helped enable getting some parts of consensus done, even done quicker than it used to get done.

Michael: Yeah, I think you’ve made a lot of good points. You make the wheels turn in my head this Monday in California, Monday morning. But I think for what I’ve witnessed as the CEO of our company, that has gone fully remote and that did have a great culture before the pandemic when we were in the office. And we still I would say we still do have a great culture, but it’s very hard to get that messaging out to everyone all the time when it’s across Zoom because you can’t get everyone on a Zoom call like you could rally everyone around the watercooler when you’re in the office. So, I mean, you can but, you know, you’re stopping a whole day to do that now. So I think. That’s the hardest thing that I found is trying to push that culture forward. And what I’ve found from my stakeholders, my shareholders in the company is it’s easier for someone to hide now. They don’t want to be a part of that culture if they don’t want to be front and center if they don’t want to participate. They can just hide behind their desk and on, you know, not engage. But to your point, and I was thinking it right before you said it, which is crazy, I’ve been able to connect so much more one-on-one with people down the line that I probably wouldn’t have spent a lot of time and energy with as the CEO. And I’ve gotten to know some people and I’ve gotten to help mentor and talk and I don’t know if I’ve shaped, but hopefully given them at least some good advice and thought process on what you know, what it means to be an employee at Branded Group and what the expectations are in a good way. And I think that is something that is a silver lining that I didn’t I probably didn’t think of until you were just talking right now. So. Right. The reason that I’m going to go buy this book as soon as we get off of this podcast.

Vikram: So if I may, just one quick comment. Sure. I do think that to your point of all that’s going on, I mean, I think communication in many ways, yes, there are challenges, but it can also be enhanced in this remote work. I do think the piece that we’re in the early innings often doesn’t quite know how it’s going to play out to three, four, five, eight years down the road is the cultural aspect, right? What is going to be your ability to shape culture in a remote or hybrid world relative to, you know, mostly a physical and in-person world? I think the jury’s out on that one.

Michael: Yeah. I mean, I can’t you know, I don’t know what you guys did during the hybrid portion if you’re back in the office or not. But for us, it was a lot of zoom happy hours and zoom meetings, and like I don’t want to connect with I know we’re connecting over Zoom right now or some sort of form of telecommunication, but I don’t think the team wants to do that anymore. I think they’re all burnt out and they want to hug someone or give them a high five or, you know, share a story in person. And that’s the thing that I’m struggling the most with. And what we’re doing currently is we’re going to bring back a once a month office mandatory day because everyone likes to work from home. Essentially, they don’t, you know, and we like it too because we find people work harder when you give them the freedom for the most part. You have your outliers. But the organization as a whole has worked harder with not having to commute. And we want to do a once a month thing where we’ll go work in the office and then have lunch together and have, you know, a happy hour afterward so that they can get that in-person touch. But anyway, we’re way off topic here, but I wanted to just bring that up. So you talked about the seek to align and treat the soft stuff like the hard stuff. That was fascinating. Can we talk a little bit more about that and your findings on that?

Vikram: Yes, of course. So when we talk about when we did our research, there’s a clear responsibility around the CEO as around aligning the organization. And what we found that these great CEOs did was they had a mindset of, as I said, treating the soft stuff like the hard stuff. So they take culture, by the way, they don’t come back to this. They don’t try and shape culture, whole scale in terms of trying to move ten elements of the culture, they pick one thing to move, but with its culture, with its talent, whether it’s some of these other squishy, you know, amorphous topics, they tend to treat it no differently than they do resource allocation or budgeting or the like. They, you know, they define it. They put measurements on it, they put metrics on it. They role model it themselves. They hold themselves and others accountable for it. They compensated for it. So when they’re shaping culture or they’re shaping talent, they’re not doing it in gut feel ways or amorphous ways. They’re doing it very much the way you would when you think about capital allocation and when you think about budgeting expenses. And I found that to be kind of interesting. An interesting finding is that they, you know, what they’re trying to shape. They do and do it in very, very measurable ways. So if I were to give you an example, Kaz Hirai, who was the CEO of Sony, one of the things that he wanted to deliver strategically was product excellence and outstanding customer experience. And he felt he needed to reshape the culture to deliver. This Japanese word is Kondo. I probably mispronounce that, but loosely translated, it translates to the wow factor. So whether he was in entertainment or in Financial Services, he wanted to deliver the wow factor to his customers. If you’re talking about the wow factor of your culture’s built in wow factor and he put metrics around the wow factor, you’re ultimately going to get real product innovation, real cutting edge thinking in terms of quality of products. You get out there and real measurements of customer experience where your customer is experiencing, are they loving what they’re getting from you in terms of your products? And so he spent three years doing nothing but talking and role modeling the wow factor in Sony, and it completely shifted the organization.

Michael: That’s very interesting. Very interesting. So. You made talent now into this kind of like a budgeting thing. You’ve said the culture is now something that you have to focus on. So the next one you were talking about was mobilizing. What what? Can you talk to me about that?

Vikram: Yeah, well, the responsibility there is mobilizing through leaders. Right. And the mindset that these CEOs bring is solved for the team psychology. Right. You want to mobilize through leaders, you’ve got to solve for your immediate team and perhaps the broader team psychology. And if there was one message from these 67 outstanding CEOs, it was the following. It was, don’t, don’t try and create a team of stars. Instead, focus on creating a star team. You don’t want a team of stars. You want a star team. Right. And the analogy, you know, often comes down to, you know, you’ve seen it on sports teams. The one my coauthor, Scott Keller, likes to use is the dream team in 1992 that went to the Olympics, and a little known fact, they lost their very first game to a bunch of very motivated college all-stars who felt that these professionals going to the Olympics was not the right thing. And Michael Jordan and Larry Bird and Magic Johnson didn’t play as a team and they lost the right team of stars not playing well together. They lost. Chuck Daly had to kind of motivate them eventually to become a real team. And it’s not that different in corporate America or the corporate world, which is if you have a team of stars, you have someone who is just going to focus on their area, their business unit, their function. That’s what they do. They excel in it, but they don’t collaborate and work well with the rest of the team. You’re not going to get the best out of the organization. So the focus comes down to building a star team that works well together, not a team of stars.

Michael: I agree. We have a saying in Branded Group that everyone can’t be a leader and if you had everyone that wanted to be a leader, we would get nothing done because we need worker bees as well. So you got to appreciate the people that are happy to not be in the management role and want to just sit there and work for whoever that manager is. And that hopefully, as you said, mobilizes the leaders to do their job. I like what you’re saying there. That and that’s a great analogy, talking about the dream team. And so the next part was you were talking about connecting with something that is next-gen.

Vikram: Well, actually the next one was these CEOs are amazing at engaging their boards. You know, I’ve served too many clients who over time look to essentially manage their board. They want to give them, you know, whatever information they want to give them. They want to kind of get through the board meetings and then they want to kind of get back to work. Right. And the message we heard from these great CEOs was, no, no, no, you’re thinking about exactly the wrong way. What you want to do is you want to work with your chairperson or your lead director to shape the board, to have the right people on the board that will help your company in the future. So you need to have skills on the board. If your needs are in marketing or AI or digital or governance or regulatory, have the right people on the board, and give them the right information. One CEO starts every one of his board meetings in executive session with equals seven plus seven. You know, the seven things I’m proud of since we last met. You know, the seven things that keep me up at night are total transparency, and total openness. And once you got the right people on the board and you’re being open with them, the real mindset then helps the directors, help the business. Don’t keep them at an arm’s length, which many people, many CEOs do. How do you help the directors, help you, the CEO, but also help others in the business to do better? So that’s kind of the fourth responsibility before we come to the connectedness ones, which I’d be happy to get into as well.

Michael: Yeah, let’s do it. Let’s talk about the connectedness and then the one that I’m looking forward to is the personal energy. That’s the one I resonate with the most, but of course, connect with others.

Vikram: Yeah. So connecting with stakeholders, I guess.

Michael: Three.

Vikram: Three messages came out of these interviews. The first was the mindset that starts with the question of why, why do we exist? Why are we here? Why is this company doing what it’s doing and then in turn defining what these great CEOs do? Right. The bottom line is, interestingly, many of these folks have been CEOs over the last two decades. So it’s not like they’re brand new CEOs. In today’s world, where purpose has become a very fashionable word, these CEOs were talking about purpose and defining purpose well before it was fashionable. And that allowed them to have the company be focused from. A mission point of view. But it also allows them to define when we’re talking about external stakeholders, who is it important for me to connect with? Right. Because everyone realizes all these great CEOs realize that no longer are we single mission-focused? Right. It’s all about the shareholder we’ve got to manage for a broader range of stakeholders. And do they get that balance? They get it right. Message number two is this is taking a lot more time than it used to if this used to take about 10%, 5% of a CEO’s time. Now the demands externally are taking 25, 30% of that time. And Peter Russo’s CEO said that 50% of his time was really around external stakeholders. So you see the shift occurring on that one and then the final pieces. You know, these CEOs are often faced with crises and challenges, right to you know, sometimes the pandemic comes at you in unexpected ways. Sometimes it’s the George Floyd murder and social unrest. And, you know, what’s your position as a CEO? Sometimes it’s, you know, the war in Ukraine and what position do I need to take as CEO? And, you know, these are hard decisions and hard things for them to deal with. And so they anchor back very much on the values and the principles and the purpose of the organization and trying to get to what they should as the CEO do and all of that. So lots, lots in there to unpack. If you read the book on this whole topic of connecting with stakeholders, lots of puts and takes. It’s a big topic now, though, for CEOs relative to calling it 20 years ago.

Michael: Yeah, I think I think you nailed it. It used to just not matter. It was just making money. Right. And now people care about what the consumer cares about.

Vikram: Your customer cares. Right. That’s the biggest reason in many ways, like.

Michael: Yeah, your customer cares about what you stand for and they want you to take a stand one way or the other. And some of these stands that some of these CEOs take can be very detrimental to the company based on if they don’t quite understand who their consumer is. So I think it’s very important. And like you said, you know, it used to be 10% but it was probably less than 10%. And now it’s, you know, up to 50% of the time. And then you got to think like that because the world is so transparent. Now it’s at your fingertips. You can figure out something in 30 seconds on Google that we used to. I wouldn’t even know existed, you know, 30 years ago. So I think that’s a very, very good point that you bring up in the book. Well, here’s the one I wanted to dive into, which is personal energy. Let’s talk about that.

Vikram: Yeah. So this is one that it takes us a little while to figure out. Most of them would say in the first year we were a complete disaster in terms of personal effectiveness. You know, you know, nothing can prepare you for the role. But once they figure it out, they’re pretty good at it. And I think the three messages, the first was life ends up being not a marathon or a sprint, but a series of sprints. And in that context, it becomes really important to manage both your time and your energy. And so these CEOs talk a lot about being relentless on their calendar management. The mindset is really, let me do only what I can do, right? Let me do only what I can do. And so they are relentless on calendar management. They’re also relentless in energy management. They realize that if you’re doing this for the long run, you’ve got to keep a high level of energy to keep everyone motivated and keep yourself motivated. And so whether that’s exercise or vacations or finding time in the context of a day to rejuvenate yourself, they talk a lot about renewal. They talk a lot about re-energizing themselves. They talk a lot about recovery, you know, in terms of the kind of bringing the energy back. So that was a kind of message. Number one is the life you’re going to manage. Life is a series of sprints to manage your time and manage your energy. The second thing I learned about the person is that their effectiveness is they are amazing at compartmentalizing. You know, bad things are going to happen to CEOs in the context of a month, a week, often in the context of a day. And your ability to kind of just park issues as they hit you so that you can continue to be effective in other forums. One insurance CEO said to me, walking into a meeting with his chief legal counsel. It’s all going to have to be about €2 billion on a particular issue. Heads reeling, walked right out of that meeting into a 3000-person town hall, and said I was a complete disaster. All I’m thinking about is the lawsuit when I needed to motivate 3000 people. So from that day onwards, I always loved the value of compartmentalizing and being able to talk about issues, and come back to them in a timely way. And then the final piece around personal effectiveness came down to the fact that these great CEOs were kind of servant leaders. At the end of the day, I found them to be authentic, and humble. Great listeners. Yes, they’ve got the vision, they’ve got passion. They know the direction. But they’re also great listeners, great learners, and very, very good at working through others.

Michael: I think that you nailed all three things right there. I moved out here. I had no idea what it meant to be a CEO. Some may say I still don’t know what it means to be a CEO, but I knew that I needed to take care of myself if I was going to be able to run this company effectively. And so I started a regimen of exercise and meditation, and I think you nailed it with renewal and rejuvenation, you can only give what you have. And if you’re, you know, you work so many hours, you work so hard, you need to put in that time downtime, that vacation time is very important. I highly encourage all my leaders to use their time and not just use it to sit at home and keep working behind the scenes, but to go somewhere and disconnect and kick their feet up on a chair and whatever makes them happy because you can’t lead effectively. You will burn out after a certain amount of time. Right. And I think the other thing you said was compartmentalization. I was really bad at that. When I first started leading the organization. I would hear some news like someone was quitting or someone was going to another company or we were losing a client. And I would let that affect my communication across the rest of the day to the team. And they would feel me at my worst. And I had to learn how to compartmentalize. It took me probably a year or two to figure out how to do such a thing. And I think it’s something that all CEOs need to know how to do. It’s very, very important. So thank you for all those tips and forgoing running through all the tenets of this book. I think it’s got to be on all the audience’s list of things to do in the next couple of months. Go get this book in and get it. Get a good read. So Vik, I want to thank you for coming on the show today. I appreciate the time. It’s been great. Let the audience know how they can get a hold of you if they would like to do so.

Vikram: Well, they can find me on LinkedIn. They can reach out to me through the McKinsey website at McKinsey dot com or they can always email me directly at VC, underscore Malhotra, at McKinsey dot com as well. So I’m easy to find. I’m easy to find.

Michael: Well, Vik, again, thank you so much for coming on and sharing. And again, good luck with the success of the book and keep it going. And I know what I’m doing right after the show. Audience, until next time.

Thank you for tuning in. I hope that today’s episode inspired you to become a purpose-driven leader in your career or your community. There’s no doubt that when we lead with purpose, we can change lives. If you enjoyed today’s show, I’d be grateful if you would take a moment to rate us on your preferred listening platform. To learn more about Branded Group will be a better experience and how we provide industry-leading on-demand, facility maintenance, construction management, and special project implementation. Visit us at www.branded-group.com. Be sure to follow us on social media and you can also reach out to me directly on LinkedIn. Until next time is better.

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