Be An Active Participant in Your Healing with Dr. Justin Lin

54. Be An Active Participant in Your Healing with Dr. Justin Lin

“You must be an active participant in your own healing.”

—Dr. Justin Lin

Rehab and Revive

Podcast Transcription

Hello, I’m Michael Kurland, CEO and co-founder of Branded Group, an award winning facility maintenance and construction management company that services multisite commercial properties such as retail restaurants, health care facilities and educational institutions. Welcome to the BeBetter Podcast. Each week I interview thought leaders from a variety of industries who will share their stories and the lessons they learn as they strive to be better for their clients, partners, employees and their community. Are you ready to be better?

Michael: Hello and welcome to another episode of the BeBetter podcast. I’m your host, Michael Kurland. Joining me today, Dr Justin Lin, physical therapist at Rehab and Revive. Justin, welcome to the show. Why don’t you tell the audience a little bit more about who you are and what you do.

Justin: Mike, I really appreciate your time today and having me on. Yeah, I’m Dr. Justin Lin, physical therapist at Rehab and Revive. We’re one of the top chronic pain clinics where we specialize in Hands-On, you know, innovative techniques here and test in Irvine, California. And, yeah, we’ve just been helping the community over the past 10 years. We’re excited to celebrate our 10 year anniversary this year is basically the 10 year anniversary. And yeah, kind of you had to bring forth these ways just to help people who’ve kind of fallen through the cracks with your traditional conventional therapies that haven’t worked or, you know, just kind of plateaued. And, you know, it’s our way to kind of boost people up, get people more optimal, get people more efficient and have them moving and enjoy life and bring back the quality of life that they lost.

Michael: Yeah, I’m super excited to have you on. So first of all, congratulations on ten years. That is amazing. And, you know, we talked pre show and it’s been quite the journey to get to the ten years. So let’s let’s start there. Like you were talking about, you know, you’re trying to get people back to quality of life and they’ve fallen through the cracks of traditional medicine. And you guys do, is it a more of a holistic approach? Is that how it is?

Justin: Yeah, yeah. I mean, you can call it a holistic approach, holistic therapy is so broad right? But I would say when we’re looking at the whole body, we created a system called neuromechanical therapy where we’re looking at basically your nerves first and then working on your biomechanics. So it’s this kind of inside out approach as a better way to describe this. In a way, it is holistic. We’re looking at your whole body because one system like your shoulder could be affected from your neck, your ankle over 10 years if you sprain that multiple times can become a headache, right. So you want to kind of pick up these things off and a lot of these little segmental or partitioned way of our traditional medicine here in the Western medical model is we just missed that. And then so we need start putting these little clues, these little puzzle pieces and really bring it together and find that whole story that is you, the patient or the client. And we’re really just trying to kind of like historically, even chronologically, put these things together. And then athat’s what helps build that person back up from scratch.

Michael: Yeah, I know we’re a little off of what we were starting with, but let’s just go a little bit further into this, because I know for me and I think this will be a good Segway to get into your back story, but I know for me, when I, I broke my foot when I was 24, I literally tore my lisfranc and broke every metatarsal in my foot. Yeah. All five metatarsals. And so I needed surgery, couldn’t walk, you know, was in a walking boot for three months to get the swelling down in my foot and had surgery. I was on the couch or like out of commission for nine months. Couldn’t drive, couldn’t go to work and do anything because I had, you know, pretty much my whole foot reconstructed and fused back together. And then now, you know, this is about 18 years later, like I have back pain, I have ankle pain, I have shoulder pain. And, you know, the traditional way that they dealt with it was here, here’s some here’s some painkillers. It’ll be fine. Just let it heal and it’ll get back to normal. And that was my initial first probably two years of dealing with the foot and the back injury. And then I started realizing, like painkillers were not, you know, the way to go. So with that being said, I started looking at holistic ways, but I think that’s a good segue way for you to start telling your backstory.

Justin: Yeah, what a rude awakening when you’ve been athletic your whole life and, you know, you’ve basically done everything you could. Something, a freak accident happens and then you’re stuck with that pain pill as the resolution when you really need to build back that whole person. So, yeah, that’s kind of what we do here at Rehab and Revive. But yeah, a little bit of kind of the journey of Rehab and Revive. And my personal story, I was working in Washington, DC back in late 2000s, 2008, 2009 or something like that. And then, you know, I was just living a good life. New graduate for the most part. I think four or five years out, I was playing all these sports, these recreational sports, softball, flag football. I ended up tearing my ACL on a like a cut move and then and just popped and I knew instantly, I was already practicing as a therapist, and I knew that it was probably my ACL that had gone and it really sucked and, you know, kind of hobbled my way to the E.R., scheduled an appointment for surgery because I wanted to get back to playing as soon as possible, you know, I was not even 30 yet, I think like late 20s and just in peak condition, obviously love being active. And then, you know, we had surgery and it was otherwise pretty successful surgery, you know, kind of in that Western traditional form. And then coming out of it, they obviously gave me pain pills. It was excruciating pain. ACL reconstruction is rated subjectively as the second most painful surgery known to man other than, second to knee replacement. So, you know, you can kind of topple that. And it’s just pretty I don’t know what it is. That’s a very insecure feeling. There’s a lot of things that are probably tied up to it when you can’t move. Kind of like yourself, Mike, when you know, when you just kind of just kind of down and out, like, you know, you really start questioning how long you can do it.

Michael: How long did that pain last been characterized as the second most painful operation you can have. Like, how long is that pain last?

Justin: It can last anywhere from six months to two years. And that’s essentially thinking that, you know, I’m a practitioner. I know the body. I would be maybe on the shorter end of this thing. Unfortunately, my body disagreed. And, you know, I was kind of left kind of needing help and not knowing what to do. But, you know, basically what happened is I ended up, you know, taking more and more of the OxyCodone. The surgeon who I trusted decided, you know, hey, you can take more because the pain was, you know, basically adapting to the levels of the dosage. And I just kept pumping it up. And at some point, probably like three or four months later, definitely addicted to the oxy.

Michael: And so I want to pause you here, especially being a doctor. So, you know, in, as you mentioned, Western medicine a couple of times. That seems to be, you know, there’s a pill for every ill, right? So you have pain. I’m just going to write you a prescription. And it’s not because it’s in your best interest. It’s because you know, the pharmaceutical companies are sending reps in and they’re saying, hey, you know, write enough prescriptions of this and we’ll get you a bonus, send you on vacation somewhere. And I wanted to touch on that so the audience is aware of that, and keep on going.

Justin: Yeah. And that’s definitely happening. And you know, even though I’m a doctor of physical therapy, I have this weird insecurity when I kept asking, are you sure I should be taking, you know, one more, he’s like, oh yeah, that’s fine. And, you know, part of it, it’s like he’s got backlog twenty patients. That’s that model. They want to get you in and out, you know, as quick as possible so they can move on to the next client and maybe a extra pain pill or him just advising that, you know, at some point I was like, I think I my second or third follow up, I was like, dude, I’m on nine of these things. And my better senses kept saying, I’m on nine of these things like two’s enough to kill a horse. You know, why am I on nine? I’m like, yeah, I’m a beast. You know, I can take nine of these. Yeah, I’ll take it, bring it on. But, you know, that’s not good, you know. And nine, I got used to it. I was going to work probably high. And, you know, there’s a chance that, you know, I could have perform malpractice myself, lost my credentials, lost my license, lost my driving license, all that stuff. So I came to one, you know, kind of going back to our little pre chat, a lot of it came this headway basically, it’s all like turbulent storm was perfect storm was happening. I thought I was fine. You know, I was taking nine of these babies and I went out with friends drinking one night. And, you know, I didn’t have someone take my keys. I thought I was fine. Better senses got in my car after, you know, I think was a good number of drinks, three or four with the OxyCodone. And I was probably in D.C., you know, the kind of proper and then driving. I was living in Arlington, Virginia at the time, so I took the 66 down and then got through my exits and then of course like I was, I’m very vigilant because I probably knew I shouldn’t be, you know, behind the wheel and not something I’m proud of, of course. And definitely a learning lesson. But as I got to it, I think I had there is a there’s a red light. Then I kind of started getting really tired because, you know, you kind of get more relaxed when you’re closer to home. I was probably a good mile from home at that point. And then, you know, I fell asleep at the wheel going around forty, forty miles per hour and luckily it was more of a straight away but, you know, I think I was down and out for about, I don’t know, forty, forty five seconds. I don’t know how long, to be honest. But by the time I came to, I looked up and I’m like, oh, what’s going on? And then I’m seeing a pedestrian, you know, in Washington D.C., Virginia, Northern Virginia. People are out and about, especially on the weekends. And it doesn’t matter what time. I think it was like 1:00 a.m. or 2:00 a.m. at the time. I’m seeing a guy basically in the middle of the street. I think the hood basically from my driver’s seat to the hood and probably another car length is basically where this pedestrian was. And I’m like, oh, shit. Like, I ‘m fucked, like, I’m going to see blood. I’m going to have my windshield cracked, the hood, you know, I’m going to lose my license. All this all this happened. I close my eyes and I’m like screwed. I’m totally screwed. I’m like and I’m waiting for this thud. My eyes are closed. I’m waiting for this thud and a crack and, you know, like, I’m going to have to stop. And I don’t know, you know, how I’m gonna explain the story to the police. You know, hopefully the person’s not dead, but, you know, and nothing happened. I opened my eyes and I just looked in the rearview somehow some way, maybe this guy saw me coming, jumped out of the way. Of course, he’s like, flicking me off, you know, in the background and, you know, cursing my name. And I, you know, I panicked, you know, I definitely just, you know, sped off back to my apartment, parked, ran up to my bathroom, threw on the showers, the cold showers. I think I was in there for about eight, nine, ten hours just in my party clothes, you know, curled up, crying, like becoming, you know, like how did I become this way? How did I become this this person that I shouldn’t be and wasn’t, you know, I swore to protect the community. And, you know, I’m a, you know, health care practitioner. And why did I even get behind the wheel like, you know, my better senses, my logic was definitely skewed. You know, I can say part, you know, part was willpower. Part was, you know, maybe being under the influence, not thinking correctly, thinking I was fine, thinking I was invincible. Because sometimes when you’re under these oxys and these opioids, you feel powerful and it really feeds off some of that emotional insecurity, that psychological insecurity you might have. And at that time, It was just this revelation, you know, I kept saying, what do I got to do to get out of this, what I got to do to get out of this? And, you know, whether it’s, you know, God or some other voice, inner voice, it just it just kept saying, go home. Right, go home. And home is Irvine, California and Southern California. And my parents are here. And everything like that, and it just kept saying going to go home. And then, you know, I think from that moment, if I didn’t listen to those times and that point, I would have been in the same situation again and maybe the outcome wouldn’t have been, you know, as favorable. So, yeah, I was home in six months, you know, back in my childhood home in my small twin size bed, my feet hanging out and going, what? You know, I was a bachelor, you know, now back under my parent’s parents roof.

Michael: Well, that’s a very vulnerable story. I really appreciate you sharing all of the details. Thankfully, everyone is OK. And, you know, it’s really, I really want to touch on the opioids. You talked about that because opioid dependency is such a terrible thing going on in our country right now. And it has been for a long time. And what, you know, for the audience who doesn’t really know what happens is when you get hooked on pain pills, you know, they’ll write you prescriptions like Dr. Lin was talking about, and they’ll just keep giving them to you and they’ll keep upping your dosage. And then one day they’ll shut them off. And then you have to figure out what to do. And most people then go buy heroin on the street because it’s the cheapest way you can get your opioid dependence. So I really, I’d like to touch on that. Like, just why is it that you feel like we are in this place in Western medicine? I mean, obviously, I think it’s Big Pharma. I think I mentioned that before. But I mean, coming from your point of view as a doctor, what like what is it? Why?

Justin: Oh, I totally believe, like I said earlier, great marketing, people’s vulnerability. We’re in this, like, rush, rush, rush type of society. You know, you can Amazon Prime, you can Door Dash. You know, you don’t have to wait. You can just, you know, everything’s at your fingertips. So, you know, why would suffering for one more minute, one more hour be, you know, relevant right in your life, like you on your couch. You know, if you had other than luckily you have the willpower not to be on this this junk.

Michael: I mean, I had similar issues. You know, I was hooked on it for almost a year and I was drinking out too. And, you know, they put the thing on the bottle. And I was a 24 year old kid. I’m like, oh, my friends are drinking beers like and dude, I didn’t drive. I couldn’t drive, thank God, because my foot was broken, my right foot was broken. But, you know, I did a lot of, I probably I would have, I did a lot of dumb things. I definitely went out drinking on crutches and fell and probably did more damage to my foot than, you know, the original injury. I thought I was invincible to your point, because I didn’t feel any pain. But you also, I think you touched on something else that’s very important is, you don’t think your’re high you know, you said it yourself. You’re like oh I took nine and I would go to work and do my job. I mean, I was I would take nine. I don’t know if I took nine, but, you know, I took a healthy amount and the world was normal. Then I’d have a couple of beers in the world was not normal. But, you know, so but like this is, people don’t realize this when they’re getting, like I don’t think the doctors really tell you how, you know, you can, you know, go to CVS. Do you want to consult with the pharmacist? And then it’s left to your own device. But no one really warned you how powerful these things can be when when you’re getting them. At least they weren’t when I’m thinking me and you were taking them.

Justin: So, yeah, they’re still I think it’s still very prevalent. Like I said, everything’s moving fast and everyone wants that quick fix and then really thinking about, you know, oh, do I want to do something like holistic physical therapy or other things? All that’s going to take a lot longer. But here’s a pill, right? Like it’ll magically go away. You and I didn’t think anything of it. I thought I was functioning fine as a human. And yeah, what happens when it’s cut off finally, like hey, you’re taking too much. And, you know, the pharmacist starts ringing, you know, ringing the alarm and then you’re screwed in that sense, you know, and it’s such a powerful thing because there’s a feedback when you take the mechanism inside the brain, when you take opioids, you know, it’s you know, kind of the basis of that is opium right? You know, if you really think about that, you know, that pleasure, that reward center and who doesn’t want to feel great right? Like, that’s just, you know, but I think, you know, we’ve had such a really I mean, we could even be on a soapbox, but, you know, the way the world is painted right now, there’s such a huge aversion to pain and suffering, right? But maybe you need pain and suffering to show you the good stuff in life.

Michael: It’s the Yin and yang. Like without pain, there’s no pleasure. Right. So then how do you even know?

Justin: Yeah. And I think it’s there to warn us. But I mean, that’s why pain as a physiological adaptive thing is to show us, hey, you know, you’re doing you’re doing something too much too far. You don’t want to quiet that down. You don’t want to mute it down, that sounds like, hey, you probably don’t want to be, you know, hobbling on foot going drinking or hey, you know, you probably you know, you’re in pain at your knee and and, you know, you shouldn’t get in the car and, you know, and mess around with your friends. Right. Like you should just rest. You know, there’s this powerful book, right. It’s like why we sleep. It’s like a bestseller right now. But rest I mean, that’s the most powerful performance enhancement for our brain and our body out there. But, you know, we don’t emphasize that we’re on this go, go, go, quick, quick, quick. And I think when we relook back at, you know, when took 20 to 100 years, now our children research this time they’re going to look back and these guys were freaks like why were they needing to speed up the world when, you know, everything was very manageable?

Michael: I mean, I agree with you. I used to have a saying, I’ll sleep when I’m dead. And now I’m like, I’ll sleep tonight for eight hours, eight to ten hours. And I’m okay with that. I used to go out in my twenties and I think I mentioned this before on the show. And I would say, you know, we go out, we go out till two, I lived in Connecticut and you could just jump over the border to New York and then go out till four. So we do all that. And I started really realizing nothing good happens after 2:00. And then I got here to California and I started realizing nothing good happens after twelve. So I’ll go home by midnight and now I’m nothing good happens after 10. I’m in bed by like 9:30.

Justin: 10, that’s my philosophy too at this stage in our lives. But yeah. I mean, it’s easy to get hooked on the stuff they don’t you and I think, you know, the world needs to know, you know, a lot of us who are successful have suffered a lot of pain and there’s ways about it. There’s ways to get out of this funk, you know, being around the right social atmosphere that promotes a better well-being. You know, having loved ones, your support system is some of the key and then getting the right help from professionals that believe that, hey, you don’t need help. That’s kind of the that’s kind of what you know. Yeah. It’s all about when I talk about Rehab and Revive, it’s you know, it wasn’t just, you know, physically rehab reviving, but there’s so many life stories that need to rehab and revive.

Michael: Let’s talk about this now. Like, so you’re living in your parents’ house. You’re in your twin bed from high school. And where’d you go from there? Like, how did Rehab and Revice come?

Justin: You know, I got depressed. You know, I went from this crazy, like, adrenaline, you know, time and I just dropped bottomed out and then life just, you know, handed me more sickness or weird stuff or weird people, you know. I ended up working for a crook out in Sherman Oaks, they were doing fraud and insurance fraud and Medicare fraud. And, you know, they’re awful. And I got fired because I didn’t want to subscribe to that. Eventually this is what led and then I got blackballed. I can you know, what a crazy time, right. To go from almost killing someone in a car then and then getting fired because I stood up for my, you know, ethics and not doing that. I couldn’t find a job, went back to, you know, I was up in L.A., but then, you know, within two months I was back down in Orange County sitting around growing a Fu Manchu. You know, walking around in my pajamas. And my parents are like, no, we can’t have this. I think about two months of me being angry, staring at the, you know, the wall, you know, was enough for them. And, you know, my mom with her greater senses and, you know, knowing how to push my buttons, I was able to just kind of jumpstart that part of my life. And so she had one of my aunts actually also tore her ACL, ironically, the same side, one of my mom’s friends, I call her auntie, and she said, yeah, I’ve got you know, Aunt Jo’s coming in like two hours. And I’m like, you know, I’m like all disheveled. And I was like, oh, no, I don’t want treat her mom. And then she’s like, no, she’s coming. So, you know, clean up. And I’m like, well, there’s nothing I can treat her with, you know, or whatever. And she’s like, you know, I was like, I’m not going to do it like on the ground or whatever, you know? And she’s just like, slapped two hundred dollars on the table and she goes, go to Costco, pick up a massage table. And that was kind of the beginning of it all. So I like grumbled, went to Costco, picked up the massage table and then, you know, it was great. Aunt Jo has a lot of the large social network. And then she started telling all the other aunties and that was cool. It basically was really interesting because now I’m operating out of my house. Rehab and Revive started that way. I had these really wealthy, middle aged women, you know, knocking on the door every hour. You know, the neighbor is probably like man is like a gigolo right, they’re leaving happy, right? You know, and then I was like tucking away money, you know, I think at the time it was like fifty bucks or something like that. I was charging and, you know, just kind of squirreling it away and then eventually came to the point my mom was like, hey, you know, you should think about having a little storefront or a little, you know, an actual office and not operating this out of the house. And, you know, within I think six, eight months after me starting working with my aunt, I moved to a little small one roomer. And then a year after that, I was in a storefront with two rooms. And now I’m where I’m at here in Tuscon, four rooms. We have an associate, we have staff. You know, it’s really cool to kind of see this story unfold. And I think, you know, when you’re thinking about, you know, I hate to be, you know, really, you know, that kind of kind of what everyone says, you know, I was just like, let things happen for a reason. Right. You know, very trite about that. Or I think they really do. And the signals are out there. And if you appreciate what you can see the signals, then you’re going to you’re going to latch onto them. You’re like, OK, this is a sign. I better do something with it. I think, you know, life’s given me multiple chances. And I think this was the one that we could pivot from and really make a difference and help those in very similar situations, you know, a lot of people are coming here trying to avoid surgery or having unsuccessful care and then, you know, we just keep helping people over and over and over and our chronic pain, I think the success rate and chronic pain across all modalities. NIH had a study in 2016, 17% are our outcome measures are close to 80%, 70, I think 77.8%

Michael: That means you’re getting full recovery?

Justin: Oh, well, yeah. Like just getting out of pain, you know, can’t help everyone. But you know what? If people commit to it and they pay attention to their bodies and listen and help us and, you know, become an active participant in their own healing, that’s what it is. You know, when you’re talking about pain pills, we’ve become passive participants. But when you actively make a mind shift, a pivot around that. Then that’s when the true healing begins. You know, hope that’s the real pill.

Michael: Yeah, totally. I mean, I can tell you from my healing, like, once I did get off the pills, I kind of was probably 26 and it took me another six years to really because after I broke my foot. To your point I was, I was never a star athlete, but I was I could play basketball, I could play backyard football with my buddies go play softball, I did all those things and then I didn’t do anything for like six years. I just got fat. That’s what I did. I had a built in excuse. I have pain in my foot. I can never run again. I was scared to run. I had scar tissue in my foot from the surgery and I was like, I don’t want to re-break this because it was it was a horrific injury. And it was like it took a year out of my life. I was so scared to, like, re-injure myself by doing anything. So I just stayed sedentary and I gained like fifty pounds. And then I woke up one day and I was smoking cigarettes too like an idiot. And I woke up one day and I was like, what the hell am I doing? And so I went through a divorce. I went through, I knew I was like probably not long from my job in Long Island. And I was getting ready to think about my next moves in life. And I was like, well, I’m about to be single again and I can’t be fifty pounds overweight. So I started running and I was like, I’ll be damned if it hurts or it doesn’t hurt. I’m going to figure this out. And I quit smoking. I quit smoking a few years prior, but I started running and my foot still to this day is held up and I still have chronic pain from all that stuff. But the point I was trying to make is when I got out to California, I started investigating holistic ways of healing because I did switch my mind from, you know, from passive to being a part of the hope. And I started doing yoga, I started doing pilates and I started going to holistic healers. And I got a good buddy who also does holistic PT. And we got me moving in the right direction without pills. And, you know, it’s not run by the insurance companies. It’s not run by Big Pharma. And so, you know, it changed my life. And that’s one thing you mentioned before. It’s like the guy, you go to a doctor and they pump you through right, because they have they they stack their patients and they only do, what, like fifteen minutes because insurance, it’s something to do with insurance. So I’d really like you to speak a little bit more about that and also how you handle it, because you don’t do that correct?

Justin: Yeah. So yeah, my practice Rehab and Revive is an out of network, you know, you pay up front and you know, we just give you the service. If you like what we do, you come back and if you don’t, you don’t come back. Right. And I think that drives our quality of care. But to your point, when, you know, I worked in the insurance models, the insurance, I think what a lot of people don’t understand is insurance really isn’t insurance. You know, it might be a little bit more of an assurance, you know, in essence. And that’s what you’re paying for. But you’re not you know, I think a lot of times there’s ways that practitioners can game the system to maximize they call it, what do they call it now? Call it creative billing. Right? That’s another word for fraud by the way, creative billing. Let’s just say that, you know, and they maximize their times, you know, and they get away with it. You know, it’s funny because I reported my old boss to the commission here in California and I had smoking gun memos and I calculated they must have to do about like close to a million dollars in fraud a year, you know, with all the therapists that they had and then they brought, It’s really interesting. Yeah. Like, they came back and they said, yeah, there’s nothing wrong, we audited these guys and I was like, are you kidding me? I have a smoking gun memos telling me to upload different things. And so, yeah, the insurance company is the client. So, you know, when you’re when you’re paying out of pocket, you’re the client. You’re the actual client. Because my job as your practitioner, as your doctor is to make you happy. You make you feel better and then, you know, get you out of there so you can, you know, yelp us and, you know write wesome Google reviews or something like that and, you know, spread the gospel.

Michael: That’s a great Segway. So let’s talk about the other endeavor that you have, which is being a YouTube superstar. Let’s get into that. So you got a bunch of stuff on YouTube, tell the audience about that.

Justin: Yeah. So I have a YouTube channel, Rehab Revive. And it’s just www.YouTube.com/rehabrevive. And it’s meant to be our global initiative to help those do stuff at home. You know, do DIY do it yourself. You know, within reason. Of course, I always suggest that people go see their health care practitioner, make sure that it’s safe. But I think a lot of people who can’t afford to come in, this is my way of giving back to the world and community. It’s amazing. We had, you know, a couple of videos get a million plus views, you know, something as simple as how to walk, how to sleep, really, you know, make and transform people’s lives. And I’m grateful that there’s the support from the community. And, you know, hopefully those of you who haven’t subscribed to my channel, please subscribe as well, because I think, you know, there’s a lot of good information even coming down to things like vertigo or dizziness or even, you know, people who are constipated, you know, so we love talking about all these things because no one really is out there kind of championing or even wanting to talk about some of these things that are a little bit more taboo and, you know, kind of close to you. But we all have these problems and, you know, nothing to be ashamed about. And I think I’m happy to bring that forth and and really educate the public and have this as a forum to to help so many others. I think that’s the key is that, you know, I want to give back. That’s kind of like moving into my next missions in my career and my personal goals is really help as many people, just like you Mike, is really share people’s stories. Like hey, we’re not too far off from, you know, being successful or being a failure. It’s really a small line, right? You know, you’ve got your little branded sign. That little you know, that line is really a small line from being, you know, the bomb and, you know, like failing. And, you know, I think that’s what it is, is we just keep trying to push along and and we’re you know, we all have a story that motivates us. And I think, you know, whoever’s motivated, whoever is ambitious enough and hungry enough to help those, like work isn’t hard, right. Mike, when you’re at this point, like we love what we do, we get the help we get to help our staff. We can help them grow. And it’s a beautiful thing that it doesn’t feel like we’re just, you know, the hard part is getting up in the morning. That’s my work. And then getting to work, getting dressed, not having a fu manchu.

Michael: Yeah. I’m doing my best right over here. I got to get to the razor.

Justin: Absolutely. So yeah that’s basically what it’s all about you know.

Michael: Yeah. Well I certainly think your entire story embodies being better. So Justin, I want to thank you for coming on the show today. If the audience wants to get a hold of you, how can they do so?

Justin: So we have our website, www.rehabandrevive.com and our YouTube, you can hit us up there or leave comments and we’ll always try to give you as much feedback as possible as well. And then we have our regular Facebook and Instagram @rehabandrevive. So those are the best ways to kind of, you know, contact us as well. And really, you know, just try to get better and be an active participant. As always, my lesson, you know, it’s easy to go down the passive route, but when you add yourself into the equation, your eye into your own healing, I think that’s going to be the way to get yourself out of this funk, out of this, you know, Skittle popping, you know, mentality that we all you know, it’s easy, you know, like Mike and I, you know, we were susceptible to this thing. We thought we were above it. I thought I was above it totally, you know, irrational again. And I think it’s good to know and send people who you may know that are suffering from this addiction to the right places, these addiction centers, or, you know, they need to just reach out and they need, you know, someone to talk to you. I’m happy to be around. I’m sure Mike’s happy to be around to really try to coach some people through because it’s at some rough times in hindsight. And, you know, we want to get better.

Michael: And, you know, Big Pharma knows what they’re doing. There’s analytics out there. So, again, Justin, thank you so much for coming on and audience, until next time.

Michael: Thank you for tuning in, I hope that today’s episode inspired you to become a purpose driven leader in your career or your community. There’s no doubt that when we lead with purpose, we can change lives. If you enjoyed today’s show, I’d be grateful if you would take a moment to rate us on your preferred listening platform to learn more about Branded Groups better experience and how we provide industry leading On-Demand facility maintenance, construction management and special project implementation. Visit us at wwww.branded-group.com and be sure to follow us on social media and you can also reach out to me directly on LinkedIn. Until next time, be better.